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Post by Leviathan918 on Aug 7, 2003 16:04:13 GMT -5
Check Sirach Chapter 15, Verses 14. I'm Using the New American Bible. You may see it, it's under the Title: "Man's Free Will".
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Post by SleepyTemplar on Aug 7, 2003 23:38:15 GMT -5
Impressive, or at least that's what I would be saying if you had listened to the original claim. I asked for a biblical verse that supports free will, *NOT* a verse from the OT Apocrypha used only by Catholics.
The problem with using the Apocrypha is obvious- it makes no claim to divine inspiration. Sirach even says "You therefore are now invited to read it in a spirit of attentive good will, with indulgence for any apparent failure on our part, despite earnest efforts, in the interpretation of particular passages."
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Fredbez
RPG Townie
Satanist 0wnage
Posts: 694
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Post by Fredbez on Aug 9, 2003 2:59:21 GMT -5
it seems like no body can find a statement from the bible which supports the idea of free will. I'm sure sleepy has researched this and this is a trick question to say nder religion you have no free will..or something I'm not going to get involved this debate sleppy will nuke anything I post
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Post by SleepyTemplar on Aug 9, 2003 3:29:15 GMT -5
Actually, it's an issue of interest for me, because most Christians adhere to the idea of Libertarian free will, yet have never presented biblical justification for the idea. So naturally, I'm curious as to where the idea comes from.
Being a determinist, the free will debate is something I hold great interest in (granted, I prefer free will discussions that do not deal with theism), and enjoy learning more about. I'm always wanting to see a good defense for libertarianism, as sadly, I have yet to see one. The argument from moral responsibility does bring up an interesting point, yet still does not diminish morality or the consequences of it in a determinist position.
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ChromeCat
RPG Townie
"My avatar and Signature are original, do you think they are any good?"
Posts: 189
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Post by ChromeCat on Oct 17, 2003 15:29:11 GMT -5
At the begining when God created Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat from any tree from the Garden Of Eden except one tree. But the devil told Eve that if she ate from this tree she would be like a god. This was false but Eve believed him. She told Adam to eat too and they both sinned. They CHOSE to eat from the tree and to disobey God which was wrong.
So they had free will, they chose wrong...
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