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Post by The~Inquisitor on Nov 7, 2002 13:31:51 GMT -5
I cannot believe YOU of all people are for it, Sleepy...you cannot make things good by doing bad things. Killing people does not stop killing.
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Post by SleepyTemplar on Nov 7, 2002 15:10:44 GMT -5
Firstly, emotionalism does not justify a claim. Secondly, I did say I personally believe drugs should not be used. Why? Because drugs lead to many harmful effects- not just from the actual use of drugs- that are often long-term. I simply provided the reasoning behind those who advocate legalization of drugs. If you disagree with this reasoning, I would recommend trying to refute it rather than giving some emotional bit of "I can't believe YOU of all people are for it!" (And in actuality, I am neutral of the matter). Now, your second bit is a strawman. Those who advocate the legalization of such drugs are not advocating murder. Their belief is that legalizing marijuana, cocaine, and other such drugs, coupled with a strong drug education, may lead to an improvement in the "war on drugs", in that we may see A) an end, or at least a reduction, of violent crime in illegal drug dealing, B) an overall reduction of drug use, and C) easier to control use of said drugs. I went over this in my first post. You did not address it. Please note that those who advocate the legalization of drugs do not hold the belief that a society of marijuana or crack addicts can flourish. To try and argue this is a strawman. What such people believe is that legalization, coupled with a strong education program about drugs and their effects, can end certain problems. If you're shocked that I voted "yes" in the poll, I should point out that although neutral on the matter, since few are arguing the affirmative, I'll argue it in hopes of seeing a good argument on your side. That, and a simple poll doesn't mean all too much. Regarding your "you cannot make things good by doing bad things", if you wish to discuss Machiavelli, deontological ethics, utilitarianism, and "does the end justify the means", I'm all for it. After all, I've yet to commit myself to a definite position in ethics, and such would undoubtedly help.
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Post by Sutebenu Puroru on Nov 7, 2002 16:40:51 GMT -5
There are some forms of most of the drugs listed in this topic that are legal for medical use. Personally, I voted no because legalizing it would not help to reduce it's use. By legalizing them, in the USA, it would probably just increase use and decrease the overall health of most unhealthy Americans.
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Post by Suikodenmad2003 on Nov 7, 2002 18:49:11 GMT -5
No, I don't think marijuana should be legalised. Drugs are filthy and I have no idea why any sane person would potentially harm themselves for a few minutes of 'pleasure'. As for tobacco...well, I think it should be made illegal. It wouldn't be so bad if these idiots were just slowly killing themselves, but they pass on their disgusting smoke to other people too.
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Post by PaulC on Nov 7, 2002 19:12:41 GMT -5
Personally, I agree that such drugs, including alcohol and cigarettes shouldn't be used. However, the reasoning behind legalizing such drugs is that it may cause A) an end to violent crime in illegal drug dealing, B) an overall reduction of drug use, and C) easier to control. Arguments are usually based upon the failed Prohibition attempt of the 1920s. Violent crime and illegal alcohol sales sky-rocketed, and consumption of alcohol went up. As such, some believe that legalizing marijuana, cocaine, and other such drugs, coupled with a strong drug education, may lead to an improvement. I disagree. A) It is true that legalizing marijuana would hurt crime somewhat, but not as much as you claim. First of all, marijuana is not the only drug sold to fund crime; far from it. Secondly, marijuana is considered a 'gateway' drug, and if it is legalized demand for harder, still illegal drugs will skyrocket. The damage to the illegal drug trade would be significant for a time, but the effects would quickly fade. B) I do not see this as likely at all. Legalizing marijuana makes it more socially acceptable, eliminates the legal risks involved with its usage, and ensures that it will be far more easily available to a wide range of the population. Not only that, but advertisement blitzes and the inevitable chemical tinkering to ensure a more addictive product would ensure an enormous raise in its usage, far from a decrease. C) Easier to control? Yes. But will it be controlled to a degree where it will be less harmful to the population at large then it is currently? More doubtful. Whatever small restrictions the government manages to pass in the face of a new, multi-billion dollar industry will hardly make up for the sharp increase in usage that will result from the drug's legalization. As for the prohibition argument, there is a difference between banning a controlled substance that is currently legal and keeping an illegal one banned. I wish tobacco could be made illegal as well, but that is not practical; I do, however, firmly believe that other harmful substances should NOT be legalized. Doing so would, at best, slow down drug trafficking for a time. If tobacco had been illegal from the start, far, far fewer would die from its usage every year. Oh, and we already have an attempt at a 'strong drug education' - we pour millions of dollars into it with little success. Removing the force of law from behind it would only weaken its effects.
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Post by The~Inquisitor on Nov 8, 2002 10:57:03 GMT -5
People who take drugs are just sick (Apart from when it's medicine). They waste there lives and kill themselves, I'm quite pleased there doing that, but they try and bring good people on that slippery slope to scumville. If I go get a wife, make a family and so on, I sure as hell would not like to see my kids throw away everything for nothing. As for legalising it, if there legalising that we might aswell legalise murder and things like that, we will have complete and utter anarki anyway.
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Zone
RPG Townie
Posts: 181
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Post by Zone on Nov 9, 2002 22:00:46 GMT -5
Legal or not, Marajuana is not really that bad. Alcohaul (d**n spelling) is worse. Marajauna just makes you tired. However, Marajauna reduces game production by 30%.
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cloud
RPG Townie
I LIKE GIRLS
Posts: 32
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Post by cloud on Nov 21, 2002 14:15:46 GMT -5
I think it should be legalised, if people want to poison themselves for fun then let them! Who really cares? they will do it anyway might as well let them do it in peace.
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Fredbez
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Satanist 0wnage
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Post by Fredbez on Nov 21, 2002 15:13:09 GMT -5
im with cloud if they want to do it let em
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celticshiva
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"Cross me once, shame on you. Cross me twice, shame on me." --Mr. Scott
Posts: 296
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Post by celticshiva on Nov 23, 2002 11:48:23 GMT -5
I think Marijuana should be legalized in much the same way Sleepy mentioned. At one time Alchohol was illegal, but they legalized it to reduce the gang wars that were occuring over it. Now we have car crashes resulted from drunken driving.
If marijuana were legalized it would free up space in jails for murderers and rapists and other SERIOUS offences. Those who are jailed for marijuana should be sent to rehabilitation rather than jail, and legalizing it would be a step in that direction.
I disagree with PaulC that tobacco should be illegal. Sure it is worse for you than marijuana but our jails are already overcrowded as it is.
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Post by PaulC on Nov 23, 2002 22:38:10 GMT -5
I think Marijuana should be legalized in much the same way Sleepy mentioned. At one time Alchohol was illegal, but they legalized it to reduce the gang wars that were occuring over it. Now we have car crashes resulted from drunken driving. If marijuana were legalized it would free up space in jails for murderers and rapists and other SERIOUS offences. Those who are jailed for marijuana should be sent to rehabilitation rather than jail, and legalizing it would be a step in that direction. I disagree with PaulC that tobacco should be illegal. Sure it is worse for you than marijuana but our jails are already overcrowded as it is. So you view the death of millions as a less significant problem than jail overcrowding? Controlled substances kill far more people than violent crime each year - and you don't regard them as a "SERIOUS" enough problem to justify government action against them? Rehabilitation instead of jail time, yes, but legalization, no - never. That would only make the problem far, far worse. If our country's jail system needs to be reformed, by all means reform it - but surely there are better methods of keeping our jails uncrowded than by legalizing crimes.
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celticshiva
RPG Townie
"Cross me once, shame on you. Cross me twice, shame on me." --Mr. Scott
Posts: 296
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Post by celticshiva on Nov 23, 2002 22:53:18 GMT -5
I assume you are including 'hard' drugs such as crack and cocaine in that statistic?
Marijuana dosn't kill. In and of itself its a benign drug that is less harmful than cigarettes. Death as a result of being high on marijuana is a different matter, but its no different than alchohol. If it were legalized we could perhaps have better education on the matter in schools.
[edit] Keep in mind, I'm very neutral on the matter.. I like to play 'devils advocate' and see and/or argue both sides to something before I make up my mind.
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Post by TheNeanderthal on Nov 24, 2002 0:03:15 GMT -5
No Drug should be legalised, no Drug should be made. Too many problems over them.
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Post by Chickensoupcheese on Nov 24, 2002 4:43:54 GMT -5
Killing people does not stop killing. That is true; however, if you were to stay in context, we would be talking about legalising murder; do you think that would cut down murder? I agree with the fact that drugs are bad, and that anyone takes them (well, harmful drugs) are pretty foolish. However, they choose to be foolish by their own choice, and people are supposed to be free-willed. I'm not sure if I've already mentioned it, but I think that people should not let others decide how to live their own life, providing it does affect the lives of others in a negative , physical way to others, then, I agree with its illegality (word?). However, suicide only affects the victim and murderer, and is by free will, so in my opinion is acceptable. The same with taking drugs: providing you take them responsibily, then I would have thought the actual taking to be acceptable. However, most drug-takers would not take them responsibily, and so therefore will most probably harm others physically, which should be illegal. Which means I've sort of dug myself into a hole.If drugs were to be legalised, they should be restricted to the safety (for the surrounding area) of their own home. Drugs will never fade into existence, because of numerous reasons: the first is that they will be continued to be produced, as because the majority are illegal substances, theyare worth more, which means the producer sells them for more, overall a very profitable industry, albeit a risky one. Which leads to the second one: some people live on risk, danger, doing things what they're not supposed to do. If there were none of these people, then there would be no crime. Well, just about. You always get these people who refuse to do anything they're supposed to do, and it's most likely that these are the people who will become avid drug-takers. If drugs were legalised, then it would probably do a few things: it would probably decrease the values of the substances, as many more people would be willing to produce the stuff, more people would sell, it would be easier to get hold of. They would also become less desirable, for the people that take them just because they're illegal would be out of a job, as it were.
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Pat
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Posts: 254
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Post by Pat on Nov 24, 2002 9:51:44 GMT -5
does it not effect the persons family or close friends? Because if one of my friends or one of my family members killed themselfs i would be pretty sad
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