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Post by EightSlicesOfPie on Jul 11, 2004 10:45:29 GMT -5
I'm making a game at my dad's, but I'm making it in all-RTP to prove to some people that RTP isn't absolute crap. So, I've made the first map in the game, and I want ya'll to rate it on a scale of 1-10. EDIT: It's not showing up...how do you post images on proboards? I uploaded it on imageshack and did the [/img] thing, but it didn't appear for me. Maybe it'll work for ya'll...this comps weird. It SHOULD be below this edit.
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Maxy
RPG Townie
Posts: 187
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Post by Maxy on Jul 11, 2004 12:06:29 GMT -5
No, no, no. This does not make RTP look good, this is not a good map. It is not that you have made numerous mistakes, I can only see the hole in the wall that is wrong, but the general design is poor. Also, this is not a forest, it's a green hillside with a handful of trees. Map making should not mimic real life, as in 2D, open spaces look bad. You must make it as intricate and eventful as possible - try eccentricating the cliffs. You don't have to prove that RTP can look good to anyone though, as anyone who knows anything about mapping will tell you it can. If you haven't seen it, look at the RTP map competition on Gaming World, www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67053&hl=RTP+competition - that is how to make maps look good. My advice is not to use RTP for your game, even if you could use it well it will be poorly received. EDIT: After seeing this map, Inq had something to add. He would like to teach you about the use of stairs. If you look at the chipset, the stair tile consists of two steps, each of 4 pixels in length, the default 16 pixels in width. Now, since there are 2 steps, that means the horizontal distance a stair tile takes up is 8 pixels, half the size of any other. So, to use stairs correctly you must use twice the number of stair chips as the height of the cliff. Inquisitor would like it to be known that he is sick of seeing people use chipsets incorrectly, especially when it comes to stairs. He insists that anyone reading this topic takes this map making advice on board when they make their own.
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Post by Magi on Jul 11, 2004 13:15:13 GMT -5
Hah... I see what ESoP means, but believe me when I agree that this could still look better. Your map has very few flaws, but the design could still drastically imrpove upon itself.
Try working with the Rm2k3 RTP. It looks better actually, but it is still relatively the same thing.
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The Omen
RPG Townie
Who dares wins
Posts: 612
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Post by The Omen on Jul 11, 2004 13:16:54 GMT -5
EDIT: After seeing this map, Inq had something to add. He would like to teach you about the use of stairs. If you look at the chipset, the stair tile consists of two steps, each of 4 pixels in length, the default 16 pixels in width. Now, since there are 2 steps, that means the horizontal distance a stair tile takes up is 8 pixels, half the size of any other. So, to use stairs correctly you must use twice the number of stair chips as the height of the cliff. Inquisitor would like it to be known that he is sick of seeing people use chipsets incorrectly, especially when it comes to stairs. He insists that anyone reading this topic takes this map making advice on board when they make their own. Hm. Even if it's not correct, that's what I do: or But NOT that: Because it looks bad.
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Maxy
RPG Townie
Posts: 187
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Post by Maxy on Jul 11, 2004 13:32:37 GMT -5
Well, for cliffs you'd expect the stairs to be cut into the mountain side so would look like this: But as for man-made structures, then Seems fine to me.
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The Omen
RPG Townie
Who dares wins
Posts: 612
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Post by The Omen on Jul 11, 2004 13:52:29 GMT -5
Well, for cliffs you'd expect the stairs to be cut into the mountain side so would look like this: But as for man-made structures, then Seems fine to me. Not to me. The first one is okay though.
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Post by Magi on Jul 12, 2004 1:41:14 GMT -5
I admit the second looks real weird in 2d, but keep perspective in mind. If you do, you'd notice that Maxy's example makes perfect sense. If you were to view the stairs from the side you would understand...
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The Omen
RPG Townie
Who dares wins
Posts: 612
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Post by The Omen on Jul 12, 2004 2:14:43 GMT -5
I admit the second looks real weird in 2d, but keep perspective in mind. If you do, you'd notice that Maxy's example makes perfect sense. If you were to view the stairs from the side you would understand... Yes, I know, but it doesn't look really good...
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Post by The~Inquisitor on Jul 12, 2004 7:40:45 GMT -5
2/10 Rubbish. * Faulty steps - 1 * Crap, boring cliffs * Long straight cliff edges. Gee, I get tired of saying this to poor mappers: - 2 YOU DON'T GET STRAIGHT CLIFFS! YOU DON'T GET STRAIGHT CLIFFS! YOU DON'T GET STRAIGHT CLIFFS! YOU DON'T GET STRAIGHT CLIFFS!I know what you are thinking, Mr Master Mapper. Think again!It's not just the horizontal cliffs that are the problem! Just because you've made some cliffs diagonal, doesn't mean they are no longer big straight edges. * One tiled thick cliff edge meaning that the part above the door is blocky. (The edge is at the top of the tile, not the bottom) - 3 * The detail on this map is...non-existant. Where is the detail? Big bland areas that are filled with big bland areas and quite possibly a tree plopped down every now and again (Oh AND stones. Sorry, I missed the stones. Perhaps it was because the rest of the detail on the map makes that repetition of the same stone over and over again less noticeable, eh?) - 4 * No clear indication of an exit point. Perhaps it is an area to roam around, but if it is a linear area, you should have something to work with. I mean where on earth is the mud? Surely you can have some flaming mud! * There are unnecessary use of events at the left panorama area. - 5 * The pond on one of the higher levels of the map seems a bit dodgey. It's not a huge problem, but I find it just a little close to the edge and I would expect it to just flow off as a waterfall and go somewhere. * Look at the cliff surrounding the opening in the cliff. You have diagonal cliffs which go upwards and upwards and then suddenly change to horizontal cliffs. Rookie mistake. - 6 * You have a tree's shadow going over a cliff edge aswell as the tree's root going onto the cliff edge. Trees generally need their roots to be in good quality soil, but unfortunately for you, growing trees on rocks is not ideal. - 7 * This one is also not so much of a problem, but you have four trees chopped down and they are at the furthest possible points from each other. I'd see a tree stump as more of a man-made item when placing it on a map. Of course you'd make them random since they are afterall trees, but a lumberjack isn't going to come along with his big heavy axe, get ready to chop the tree nearest to him and then say "Hold on a sec, what am I doin' 'ere? I should carry this big heavy axe down these faulty steps, probably fall and break my neck in the process since they make no sense, pop my neck back into place and drag my big heavy axe along to this tree which is much further away and chop this sucker down. Then I will cart it all the way back up the faulty steps and bag home along with my big heavy axe. Look how much time I've saved!" I think you see my point. Chopped down trees should either occur in groups or the dotted one near roads or in the way of things. - 8 * The skeleton! Same problem as the tree. He's leaning against the wall, or is he trying to climb it? That's some impressive pile of bones. - 9 * Top right corner. More cliff problems! Ick ick ick! Be consistant in the shapes of your cliff edges. - 10 * Tip: To make steps less ridiculously long, don't have such stupidly high cliff edges. You might want to redo this map, or at least change the name of it. Fourty trees and the bottom of a tree shadow does not qualify as a forest. Now...after seeing this awful display of mapping, I, The Inquisitor, moderator of RPG Town will possibly (but very unlikely) make some tutorials on mapping for the inept mappers of the RM2K(3) community.
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Post by EightSlicesOfPie on Jul 12, 2004 10:10:11 GMT -5
Alrighty, yes, the "10" on the map was a mistake I didn't notice, I just fixed it, and the "unnecessary" events are necessary. You can walk on the diagnol pieces of land, so the player would be able to walk right across to the bottom. That doesn't make sense. So, I made events to block them from wwalking down. So ya don't get mad and go "There can't be a diagnol line of rocks!" or whatever, they're all blank and on "Same Level As Hero". I'm not a COMPLETE n00b to gamemaking like you think. I've been doing it for 3 years.
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Post by The~Inquisitor on Jul 12, 2004 10:50:39 GMT -5
I'm not a COMPLETE n00b to gamemaking like you think. I've been doing it for 3 years. Then there should be no excuse for your map being so bad. Do not scorn my advice - you clearly need it. Oh, as for the diagonal bits. You can make it so you can walk over parts of them but not over others. It's not difficult at all, Mr Experienced RM2Ker.
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Post by zumbum - The Screen Monster on Jul 12, 2004 14:48:05 GMT -5
I HAVE to commend you on the way you slated ESoP's map on the Town, I'm laughing so much, and it's made better by the fact you're serious, Inq.
I thought it was alright...
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Post by Magi on Jul 12, 2004 15:21:05 GMT -5
I'm laughing so much, and it's made better by the fact you're serious, Inq. I thought it was alright... It's routine business to me. He used to do that to my maps on a regular basis. That's probably why I never found humor in it.
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Post by The~Inquisitor on Jul 12, 2004 15:31:11 GMT -5
We both know it's not the regular basis that makes you miss the humour in it, you miserable so and so. ;D
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Mr. E
RPG Townie
i r kenshin. bow befour me.
Posts: 343
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Post by Mr. E on Jul 12, 2004 16:17:39 GMT -5
The map is ok...at first, it seemed pretty cool, but then Inq worked his magic...and I was under the spell. Everything he said is right. Thanks for the stair tip. *goes to change all the already made crap stairs in my game*
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